How do you build resilience when risk keeps evolving? What does it take to protect people, operations and value when volatility is the norm? How can insurers – and other industries – transform not just to survive disruption, but to shape it?
In this episode of Talking Transformation, Adrian Chiffi is joined by CGI insurance leader Daren Rudd to explore what resilience really means for insurers under pressure – and why it must be designed into both technology and culture from the start.
Together, they discuss:
- Why insurance companies are shifting from backward-looking risk models to predictive, data-led strategies
- What supply chain disruption reveals about fragile operations and the value of deeper visibility
- How automation and AI are helping insurers tackle the talent gap and support transformation
- Why human-centred design is vital to delivering real value and building trust
- What other sectors can learn from insurance’s journey, and why rethinking value is essential.
Whether you’re modernising your operations or rethinking your role in a changing market, this episode offers a powerful lens into how transformation can – and should – be built around people, trust and resilience.
- Transcript
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Adrian Chiffi: What does it take to build a business and an industry that can thrive through uncertainty?
How do we protect people, operations, and value when risk itself is being redefined by climate change, cyber threats, and global instability?
As transformation is more complex than ever, how can industries like insurance evolve to not just survive change, but to shape it?
Hello, everybody. I'm Ade Chiffi, and I lead Global Technology Operations for CGI in the UK. In today's episode of Talking Transformation, we're exploring a market that's all about understanding pricing and managing risk, and is itself under intense pressure to transform. We're going to be talking about the insurance industry. From the impacts of climate change to geopolitical volatility and that rise of cyber risk, insurance companies say they're not just underwriting risk, they’re living it. As the world grows more uncertain, building resilient businesses and even more so a resilient industry, it's never been more important.
Now, for the podcast, this is our first foray into a specific market, and for good reason. What's happening in the insurance industry holds lessons for every sector, whether it's building trust in the fast-moving world, retaining that critical talent, or driving transformation that actually delivers on its promise. The stakes are high, and what comes with that are rich insights.
Thrilled today to be joined by someone who's right at the centre of this story, Daren Rudd, who leads our transformation with insurance in CGI. Hello, Daren. Welcome to the podcast.
Daren Rudd: Ade, it's good to be here. Looking forward to this chat.
Adrian: Good stuff. We've been talking about this for a while, haven't we? Great to have you on.
Daren: We have, yes.
Adrian: I'm going to go straight into it then, Daren, if that's okay. We'll start with the big picture. Resilience, as I talked there at the head of the conversation, is no longer just a business buzzword. It's core to the survival strategy. How, for your mind, is the insurance industry approaching this idea of resilience?
Daren: It's a really great first question. I think from an insurance point of view, it comes from two sides as an industry. The first is they've got to think about their own resilience. How are they going to be, one, financially resilient, and pay the claims that they're asking to do? Also, they've got to think about their own operating model. The cyber threats that you were talking about, the geopolitical instability, which potentially impacts the financial markets, all of that has an impact on how the execs are thinking about their own business.
Then you've also got the side of how is AI and technology going to change the way-
Adrian: Of course.
Daren: -they work as well? They're thinking about their own business. The industry of insurance is everybody else's industry as well. They're also looking at those big societal shifts. You mentioned climate change. One of the big numbers in there, from 2024 climate losses are going to be around the region of about 320 billion. It's still being worked out, but that's a big number for one society to deal with and businesses to deal with, but also the insurance market to cover.
What's interesting is the change there is increasing between 5% and 7% of losses year-on-year. These big, major impacts on society and industry aren't going away. Organisations are going to have to learn how to adapt and be more reactive to those types of changes. I think that idea of resilience is really key. It's a much more challenging environment, not just for the insurers, but all of those other industries that have got to be able to plan and manage and react to those uncertainties.
Adrian: On that then, you mentioned the other industries. What would you say they could learn from how insurance thinks about risk, and that response and continuity then? What would you say there?
Daren: What I've seen, and traditionally, insurance has looked backwards to understand risk. That's the way it works. You'd have the actuaries looking at all of the data from previously. That's how you would then say, "Okay, I can look forward." Where we're starting to see patterns of uncertainty change, you can't look back at the weather patterns of 10 years ago and really know what it's going to look like going forward.
Insurers are having to start to look at, "Well, how do I look forward more? How do I think about it from a more predictive point of view? How do I bring that data in to look ahead?" I think the other side of that is-- Take the California wildfires, for example. You've got to build back differently as well. It starts to look at how do you mitigate the risk in a different way.
What I like about that, I think it's similar for the way that we think about the digital backbone. Other industries have got to start planning and looking ahead as well. The concept that we have, the digital backbone, thinking about an enterprise all the way up from its head of understanding where the data is, building down towards something that allows you to react. It's both looking forward, but also understanding how you're going to be able to put an organisation in that's going to be able to react to that forward predictive look.
Adrian: It makes a lot of sense. We've talked about supply chains and the geopolitical landscape that is, from a supply chain perspective, almost driving that fragility there. What's your take on that when we think about that being, for my mind, deeply tied to insurable risk? What are you seeing in that space?
Daren: It's a really interesting one, actually. Obviously, insurers, for people who may not know, provide something called business interruption insurance. If your supply chain breaks down and you can't deliver on what you're looking to do, then insurance can step in and help you do that and cover for that. We look at the geopolitical shifts and impacts that are going on at the moment. Particularly, we're seeing quite a lot of reconfiguration of supply chains. Let's take chip manufacturing being moved back to the States. That's a huge change in lots of lean, very just-in-time supply chains.
Adrian: Of course.
Daren: It makes them more fragile while they're transitioning into that new state. That's a big risk for the business, and insurers have got to reconfigure and think about that. I think there's also a positive side to what's going on with the supply chains. There's a hell of a lot more data flowing through the supply chains.
Organisations are using IoT, smart building, smart factories to allow that data to be flowed through. I think there's an opportunity both for insurers and all industries to really understand how they tap into that data that's flowing across not just their business, but the whole supply chain. I think that's a key way that both industries and insurance can work together. You need to be able to access that data and bolt it together. Again, that ability to manage that new flow of data is going to be really key to help mitigate and manage the risk profiling.
Adrian: Having that visibility then across not just the supply chain, but across the enterprise, and then being able to do something with that data and make decisions inevitably to get on top of that risk profile. Now I get that. I get that.
Changing tack a little bit for a second, one of the things you've raised with me before is around talent retention — and we talked about it at the head of the podcast there — particularly when we think about aging systems, workforce, demographics, et cetera. What's your take here? What are we seeing, and how are you looking to help?
Daren: We obviously run our Voice of the Client every year, and I've been involved in that probably for the last four or five years. Voice of the Client is where we go and talk to our customers and find out what they're thinking. What's come out as a key trend and a really big risk year-on-year is the insurance execs' worry about talent. It's a big challenge for them. It isn't just in insurance; it's across all of our industries, but it becomes particularly resonant in insurance. I've heard it described, and I think one of our statements back from one of our clients, actually, was we're facing a bit of a retirement cliff.
There's lots of staff with very specific skills and knowledge. Again, particularly tough for insurance because we've got to still rely on lots of legacy systems and platforms. A lot of that knowledge is wrapped up with individuals. I think we're similar to lots of traditional industries, not just in we've got lots of legacy, and we're potentially going to be losing people with that knowledge. Also, it's quite tough to attract the talent, fresh talent, and particularly when you're not seen as an innovative industry. I think we are, but the perception outside of it is we're not.
Again, we've got to really think about how are you going to, one, have strategies on how I'm going to apply and use potentially automation. I know a lot of our customers are now starting to look at how are we going to manage and use AI and automation to fill some of those gaps and do less with more. It's something I know your team has done a lot of work with, with things like AIOps and the Service Desk, to allow much more efficiency and do more with the people that you have. I think that's a key bit.
The other bit is going to be, how do we bring new people in and give them a much more better user experience by laying over those new digital front ends, but also thinking about legacy processes and changes, to try and get rid of the drudgery of the work that people don't really want to be doing. Maybe bring back a bit of joy to a role in the industry, and what you're doing.
Adrian: Daren, that sounds like human-centred transformation, if I was to wrap a phrase around it, and something we're talking about a lot currently. When we think about big digital transformation programmes, the ones that we see that don't always deliver on the promise, often there, that human factor is missing, that whole people change piece and time. What's your take there on making sure that human-centred design transformation is front and centre?
Daren: It's just an area I'm really quite passionate about because I think my career over the last 30 years has been very much thinking about people at the end of it, just because of where I've been and done. I think the stats, when you look at those big transformations, they're scary, to be honest. 70% of the change doesn't really deliver on the promise that was expected.
I think from experience, there are ways to think about it differently and be effective with those change programmes. I honestly think it stems a lot from you've got to be really pragmatic and practical early on, when you're doing the strategy and business case phase, about really what are you trying to achieve and for who are you going to make a difference. Is the technology really going to step up?
You mentioned human-centred design. I tend to like the way those guys think. I take something that they use a lot, which is when I'm looking at a change, we look at it from three angles — is it desirable, feasible, and viable? Basically, you've got to ask yourself and talk to the people at the other end when you're doing this. Do people really want the change that you are suggesting? Is it going to make their life better?
The other side of that is then can we actually deliver it with the tech and the constraints that we have? There's a lot of hype around AI at the moment, but it also does a lot of-- You can really use it to make a difference, but are we being realistic that it is feasible that we can achieve this stuff? Then the final bit really is, is it viable? Is there a business case behind it, whether that's hard numbers, efficiency, or actually just improving the user experience? I think when you look at it across all three, if one of those areas is flagging red, you should probably take a step back and look at that in a different way.
Then the other side of it, Ade, and you and I have chatted about this, I think it breaks down to you may have a long way to go and a north star that you're heading for, but break it down into smaller chunks. I think looking at how you can bring value in early, delivering change early, and working through using and delivering those early outcomes to build trust with the people that you're working with. I think trust is a really important part that often long programmes struggle with, just because it's so long before you actually see some outcome.
The other side of that, I think, is we don't know everything upfront. It's better to drop some new capability in, work with those people and iterate around how that change is adapting the way that they work, and then planning what's next and work through a series of gates to adapt and change, because that change programme to reach a north star is not going to go in a straight line. It's going to bend all over the place. Planning and moving and listening the whole time and iterating and building a programme that allows you to do that, I think, works. It won't work for all programmes, but a lot of programmes, I think, can benefit from that.
Adrian: I love that. You talk there about what came across, you bringing people with you. When you put something in, you go out to the community, the user group, and then you go again, you take feedback. You used that word trust. Every step you're doing that, you're building that trust.
Daren: Absolutely.
Adrian: There's no surprises. At the end, the teams are working together, and people feel they've got skin in the game then. I like that.
Daren: Absolutely. Everybody is learning as you go, yes.
Adrian: Totally. We focused in on the industry there. Thank you for that. I want to zoom out just before we come to a wrap-up in a couple of minutes. You've talked a lot about the specifics of insurance. What's your message for folk in wider sectors? What's your take?
Daren: This is obviously a transformation conversation and discussion. The takeaway I take from insurance, a traditional industry that I give out to other industries, is when we're looking at transformation, let's really rethink the traditional value propositions that we've got, what the industry is known for, and look at how we can truly transform what we do. Not just modernise the same processes and the same products and the values, but can we use this as an opportunity to really change?
Insurance is a really traditional industry. We're working really hard with clients to look ahead and go, these new technologies, the new data streams, automation, AI, how can we really rethink what we do? Not just do what we do better and faster, but actually completely rethink how we add more value back to society and the industries that we work on? I suppose that's my-- I want to call it a call to action for every industry to really rethink what they're doing. I think some of the more dynamic industries maybe are already doing that, but I think all industries could really think through taking that as a challenge.
Adrian: Fantastic. What I will add to that, the work I see you and the wider insurance team doing on a daily basis. The client base there, they are absolutely front and centre, wanting to continue to evolve, adapt, and remain very relevant. There's that push-pull relationship there where everybody is looking to drive forward, and with the uncertainty as the backdrop that we talked about, keep moving forward. It's really positive.
Daren: Absolutely.
Adrian: That adds that variety to the day then, doesn't it? You're getting to work on things that can really make a difference.
Daren: Yes. I love it. It's a fascinating industry to work in.
Adrian: Fantastic. Daren, I'm going to look to sum up. By all means, come in if you agree, disagree, or-
Daren: Sure.
Adrian: -want to add anything else in. That's all good, okay? What I've heard as we've gone through, the insurance industry is showing us that resilience must be designed in. We talked about tech there, and clearly we've talked about talent, but making sure it's designed in. Big transformation programmes, they must start with value. We talked about the scale, but it's those iterations as we go and building that trust as we move, bringing people along on that journey, which ties into the human element. It isn't optional. It's absolutely central, and I totally agree.
What's happening in the sector, it really does offer some powerful lessons for any business navigating uncertainty, which I would say is certainly most sectors right now. There's a lot of uncertainty out there, but there is also a lot of focus on adapting and remaining very relevant. Exciting times, I would say. Exciting times. Your thoughts on that, Daren? Is that a fair reflection?
Daren: I think you've wrapped that up perfectly. To be honest, Ade, I've got nothing more to add.
Adrian: You can come on again then. You can come on again. [laughter] Good stuff. Listen, Daren, thank you so much for joining the podcast. As I said, we've been talking about it for a little while. I'm delighted you've joined us today. Hopefully, you enjoyed that as well.
Daren: I loved it. It was brilliant, Ade. Thank you very much. It's been brilliant.
Adrian: Good stuff. Folks, if you're listening, I want to find out more. You can connect with us on LinkedIn or visit CGI's website to explore how we're helping clients now, build what's next. As always, you can find this and other Talking Transformation episodes wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for tuning in. We'll see you next time.
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Listen now to uncover how the insurance industry is transforming in the face of risk, and what that means for your business’ journey. To learn more:
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